1. Warming up with World War II in Reverse and your emotional response to the novel's ending
- As you watch: Which images stand out to you? What's it like to watch a war in reverse?
- After you watch: Reread the ending of Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close, starting on page 325. What effect did these final pages and images have on you? How do these final pages connect to the video you just watched?
2. Considering the final stage of the archetypal hero's journey and your intellectual response to the novel's ending
In the final stage of the hero's journey, the hero returns home, but he has gained a new understanding of the world around him. He can no longer live in fear of the future nor regret over the past.
- To what extent does Oskar (or the grandmother or grandfather) fulfill the final stage of the hero's journey?
- In other words, how does he return home? What's his new understanding of things? To what extent has he confronted his fear of the future/regret over the past? Why does Foer put the ending in reverse?
3. Enjoying our final fishbowl discussion of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close: Page 307-end
4. Wrapping up with our responses to the focus question
HW:
1. For TOMORROW:
- Bring in five items that hold significance to you (an old, printed photo, an object, something you carry around for luck, a gift you received, a letter, etc).
- Make sure your ELIC journal entries are complete and published. I will be grading them over the long weekend.
2. Bring your school copy of ELIC to turn in by next Friday at the latest.
I think that Foer puts the ending in reverse because it is the hope of Oskar wishing that none of it happened and also what would've happened if his dad never left. He is basically undoing the steps of which he didn't want to happen.
ReplyDeleteOscar finally stops inventing how his dad died but finally comes to terms with the fact his dad is truly gone, this allows Oscar to remember his moments with his dad which is in the end better for Oscar.
ReplyDeleteOskar completes his heros journey by finally getting over his fathers death.
ReplyDeleteDo you guys think that he is completely over it because at the end of the book why would put everything in reverse if he was "over it"?
DeleteI think he is over it since he is done torturing himself on how his father died and now he is just remembering how his dad was when he was with Oscar
DeleteI don't think he "got over it" I think that he finally accepted that his dad was gone and he needed to stop looking for a key or clues or brainstorming certain ways he died and move on with his life but never forget him.
DeleteI think it's just to show that he's accepted his dad's death, but he's always going to be in pain with the thought of him being dead and the way he had to die. Oscar's always going to hurt thinking of the simple steps his father took walking to his death, and how changing one thing could have kept him alive.
DeleteI think the ending is in reverse because it is a creative way to show that Oskar wants turn back time to be with his father.
ReplyDeleteDid the return of the grandfather seem like an appropriate time to finally return, or would it have been more respectable for him to have returned sooner?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHe should have returned sooner.
DeleteOskar fulfills the heros journey because he had something horrible happen to him but he left his comfort zone of his house and mother and went out to explore the world to try and find his dad. As he was doing that, he had many doubts about things and when he got to the return, it was because he never found his dad and he had been through all this work to get somewhere in his mind but his return was leaving that thought in his mind but he stopped looking for his father because he saw in his mind that there is no way he is alive.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Foer made the ending as such to show us we can remember our past the way we want to we can use images like this in an optimistic rather than pessimistic way.
ReplyDeleteOskar comes to the realization that he will never be able to truly find out how his dad died. His journey home is when he focuses on his mom life and leaves his dads for a little.
ReplyDeleteOskar completes his hero's journey by meding his relationship with his mother and Ron by accepting his circumstamces and living in the present. Oskar still replays the inncidents on 9-11 but is finally starting to move on and function in the real world.
ReplyDeleteI think for puts the ending in reverse to show Oskars feeling of regret that if everything was in reverse like the photos his dad wouldn't of died, which goes back to Oskars regret of writing everything on paper, because without paper or even photos the fire has not fuel. This may also be figurative language for good fuels the bad.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the book, Oskar has finally processed his fathers death. For most of the book, he is living in some kind of middle state, where the event is still happening in his mind, at least in a way, and the ful impact has not hit him, but when he finishes his journey, grief has begun to take a full effect on him, and he can finally learn to get past it instead of living in it.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Oskar defiantly returns back but i feel like he will always have a part missing in him and a part that is always wondering if that day could have been different. I think he also wonders if he could have changed that day and how he would have done that. I the grandfather also returns home after his journey but i feel like he keeps his whole journey with him in the form of the letters but he returns back to where he started with the memories or the letters and wants to make things right and change what he had done.
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar has had the full "Hero's Journey" as he started looking for clues and artifacts of the 6th borough. His father being the helper and grandmother as the mentor. Then his father dies giving Oskar a rebirth and transformation into another man on a mission to find what his father had left him. In return he doesn't find what his father left him but gives what someone else had been looking for on the same journey. He is then returned the thoughts and feelings of his father and all the memories and meets his grandfather.
ReplyDeleteI think Foer puts the ending photos backwards not only because that is how Oskar saw them but also because in a way that is how the whole book is. The book starts off with the worst day but then he back tracks to what happened before and what life was like for the Schell's before the worst day. I also think he puts them backwards because that is how Oskar's life is, it is backwards of what it should be. He does not have a good relationship with his mom, his dad is no longer living, and he is cared for by his grandparents.
ReplyDeletei agree that some of the book is backward and that is a good way to put it because lots of things in life seem to be better backwards or if you look back at it and how it could have changed. Oskar is also so responsible so that kind of makes his life backwards because normal kids his age would not have been able to do things the way that Oskar does. I'm not sure what Oskar would have done if he didn't have his grandparents.
DeleteTowards the end of the book, the grandfather returns home after a long journey in finding peace and letting go of loved ones. I Think he realizes on what he is missing out on at home and chooses that over suffering. The abyss in his adventure was loosing both of his children and after his son died in 9/11 he decided to come home. This is the transformation.
ReplyDeleteI think that Foer puts the ending in reverse because it showed that Oskar finally understands that his dad is gone, but he still wants everything to reverse back to when he still had his dad and when he was complete.
ReplyDeleteFor a long time he could not except his dad's death and he was in a bad state of mind. I think as we went through the book we saw him evolve and mature. The people he talked to, the place he went, the things he saw all shaped his thought process. In the end he finally accepted that time cannot reverse and that he cannot go back. All he can do is go forward but never forget his dad.
ReplyDeleteThrough the whole book we see Oskar struggle with inventing, especially with topics around 9/11 and his dads death. When Oskar comes to an understanding that he may never know how his dad actually dies he gets a sense of comfort. As seen, this comes in the way of him going backwards in time to remember the good about his dad.
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar fulfills his hero's journey by eventually overcoming his father's death and proving himself he can live on without him.
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar begins his journey home after he visits William Black and finds out the key inside the envelope had nothing to do with his journey and was part of someone else journey (Foer 302). With that Oskar also found out that his mother had known which Black he would be visiting and called prior to let them know. After this realization that his mom did care for him Osker begins his journey back.
ReplyDeleteInstead of running away from his fears and hidding, Oskar decided to search and face his fears, he went to all the different Blacks to try and solve a possible puzzle, in doing so he went on long adventures facing many of his fears but he never gave up. He dug up his dads grave to face the truth that his dad was dead, even though he wasn't in the coffin. Then I feel like he put the ending in reverse to make Oskar feel better instead of having a sad ending, it would start bad but then end happy with everyone ok and alive.
ReplyDeleteI think that Oskar has finally come to turns with the past and can now move on because I think that he knows that he wishes his dad was with him but that he can't change what has happened.
ReplyDeleteFor how long did Thomas and the grandmother stay in the airport?
ReplyDeleteWill the grandfather stay with the grandmother? Does he want to? Or is he doing it for another reason?
ReplyDeleteI feel like the grandfather in the first place didn't want to be with her. I think the whole time he thought of Anna and he was lost without her and the only way to remind and be closer to her was to be with the grandmother.
DeleteI feel like he is doing it because it is the closet he will get to Anna, but they never loved each other like Thomas loved Anna, and they didn't have a connection because she didn't understand why he wouldn't talk and she hated the silence on pg.310 when Oskars grandma wrote "He wouldn't shows me his eyes. I hate silence. Say something." and they were both just slowly hurting eachother by being together because they were not together for the right reason
DeleteI think he doesn't want to be with the grandma but be there for the grandma because he came back once their son died and then he was there when she was in a bad place after dresden
DeleteI believe that the Grandfather will stay. From the beginning of the book till the end Oskar was like a physical manifestation of what the grandparents were feeling only Oskar was more straightforward with what he was perceiving. So at the end of the story when Oskar has finally accepted the death of his father the grandfather accepts the death of his son.
DeleteI think that it is in the grandfathers nature to leave and while he cares about the grandmother very much, I don't think that he truly loves her and doesn't want to actually have a life with her.
DeleteDo you think Oskar is starting to accept his dad's death at/near the end of the book?
ReplyDeleteI think he has accepted his dads death since he isn't coming up with ways his dad died anymore.
DeleteYes I do because of his different outlook on life. He wants very badly to reverse time and go back to the night before so they would all be safe but he realizes that he can't and that he needs to appreciate what he has and the people surrounding him.
DeleteI think that this whole book was showing the process of understanding his father's death and learning how to cope with it. I think that nobody will actually ever "get over it" but he definitely is starting to try to move past it and work on his own life.
DeleteIs the reverse story on the last few pages Foers way of emphasizing Oskars grief?
ReplyDeleteI think Foer does this to give Oskar a little happiness because he went back to when he was last with his dad. Also I think it gives him a little hope that the falling man could have been him.
DeleteDid it make you disappointed that the key didn't have direct significance to Oksar's father?
ReplyDeleteI think it was better the key didn't have significance to Oscars father because if it did have meaning I think Oscar wouldn't let it go and never move on but since it doesn't hold any value to his dad Oscar can move on and actually deal with his dads death
DeleteI think Oskar's "return home" is when he finds out that his mom was helping him out the whole time. I think him finding that out represents him "returning" from the world in which he was living on his own. I think he definitely thinks differently about the world now due to the fact that he lost so much and so has his family.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Oskar and his father could be a significant figure to post 9-11 America?
ReplyDeleteI would say yes, it defines how most families were affected in New York after 9/11 and the dark feelings it brought Oskar and his family. It also gives a feeling to the people that weren't around when 9/11 happened. But the people that were around can see how much the United States has changed since then.
DeleteYes I think that this book definitely describes the trumoil and thoughts of not only kids but adults too. It was very hard to open up or relate to anyone even though everyone, at least in New York, was affected. I think that this book represents the significance in a father-son relationship, a happy family, a normal life, bbut also the feeling of grief and loss.
DeleteI saw a connection for how the characters in the book found a way to communicate with each other in a way that is comforting, similar to how America came together after 9-11
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the connection that happened between America was the connection that made America a stronger and better country? Do you think if we were to not join together we would still be in a struggle today?
ReplyDeletePeople are still going through loss and the feeling of helplessness till this day. I think that we did come together as a country in order to support everyone in this time of loss but also I feel that we have become more racist toward middle eastern people. I feel that ever since 9/11 happened we have doubt about and less trust in everyone who surrounds us because we have no idea what's going to happen next.
DeleteHow does digging up the grave give closure to Oskar?
ReplyDeleteI feel like it helps Oscar realize that his dad really is dead and that nothing is going to change that, he just needs to face his dad's death, rather than "dancing around" the idea.
DeleteI feel like it helps him because it shows him that he has finally found his dad an completed his mission of finding his dad. He doesn't see him but he knows that he is there and he finally found him even though it wasn't the way he wanted to find him.
DeleteI think it gives oskar closer because instead of not believing the truth and still wondering what happened to his dad he dug up the grave and faced that his father had passed and with that I think he was able to let himself heal.
DeleteI think that for most of the book Oskar doesn't really accept his fathers death, but when they put the letters in the empty coffin he can finally accept that he has died.
DeleteWhat would you say the title represents now that we've finished the book?
ReplyDeleteI would say it could simply represent the impact and falling of the twin towers and how close Oskar was to it and how it affected him.
DeleteThe title becomes a descriptor of how Oskar and his grandparents feel. When you lose someone and you look back you begin to notice things that you wouldn't have noticed before. For example Oskar notices his Dad's tux on a chair thus bring up memories that are extremely loud as in the volume of emotion that it brings up and incredibly close as it is a clear reminder of his father.
DeleteI think that extremely loud corresponds to oskar and how everything came crashing down in his life and all his thoughts are so loud. And incredibly close symbolizes how close oskar was to his dad and how it affected him in the book.
DeleteIn what ways did Foer what loss looks like and how to let go?
ReplyDeleteI think that at some point after a major tragedy you will have to accept it and try to move on and get stronger. Do you think Oskar has hope in the future after accepting his dad's death?
ReplyDeleteOscar will always not want it to have happened, so I think that he'll always have that on his mind and as Mrs. Leclaire said, he has and will eventually carry his father's death with more grace than he had in the beginning.
DeleteDid William Black ever find out what was in his fathers safe deposit box? He said that his father didn't write in his letter to him that he loved him but did say that he would understand why he gave him the key and the safe deposit box. What could his father of gaven him that would of substitute for an "I Love you" ?
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that things will turn out better than they seem? I thought this was a big message at the end of the book.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Reid because no matter who he met and what he experienced and how much his mom tried to be like his dad. Oskar knew no one would ever amount to the relationship he had with his dad which caused Oskars freak outs and to abuse him self through out the book because he was so young and he had never gone through something like that and he didn't understand how to felt to feel alone before and I feel like now he is just used to that feeling because he knows even his mom won't be the same as his dad
ReplyDeleteWhy are people forced to move on after a tragedy happens?
ReplyDeleteI don't think people are necessarily "forced", but I think we grow from hardship and learn a lot that helps us grow as people and mature. I think people have the choice to move on or still dwell on the past, but what life is a life where you're dragging yourself down by things that will never go back to the way they were, you just have to adjust and live life on.
DeleteI think that people don't naturally want to be sad so they try to move on to better things and focus on good things intstead of bad.
DeleteI feel like it helps some people then makes it worse fr other people. I don't think that people should really be forced to move on because some people just need time and they should be able to take that time.
DeleteThis is a question we might have discussed but im not sure.
ReplyDeleteWhy is the hand on the front a left hand when most of the world is right handed?
Could it be a face down left hand or a palm up right hand?
DeleteIt might be a right hand palm up and it might be holding something. Do you think it could be hold like an idea about the book or something?
DeleteI wonder if page 155 is related to it.
Deleteit very much could be. It could show how light something is dying off because its like there is a full hand on the first page and then its a skeleton on page 155 so it could represent something about losing something which is a lot in the book.
DeleteThomas has his hands tattooed. His left hand says yes. This may relate to the cover because the cover has the left hand too. I think that "yes" is more of a positive word and contributes to the outcome of this book.
DeleteBecause most of the world is right handed but there are very few that are left handed just like there are very few people like Oskar that are his age and able to do what he can do.
DeleteWhat was the point to the reverse ending?
ReplyDeleteI think to give Oskar some hope and happiness remembering the last time he was with his dad when everything was safe.
DeleteI think the reverse ending speaks to all people differently, but putting it in reverse is showing them that we all wish some things in our life could be reversed and go back to the way they were, but that idea is what opens our minds to the fact that we can't go back, which helps us handle those tragedies better.
DeleteI feel like it would bring him closure because even tho Oskars dad his dead, I feel like Thomas thinks that the letters will somehow find a way to Thomas jr. if he puts them in his coffin and I know people have different opinions on the After life, but I feel like Thomas just is putting the letters in the coffin because he could show the letters to Oskars dad when he was alive so he is trying to give them to him now.
ReplyDeletewhy did Oskar dig up His father's grave
ReplyDeleteI think he did that to finally get some closure in a way
Deletehe never really believed that he was there anyway so maybe it did give him closure and helped him know what to do with the rest of his life.
DeleteSimilar to Cole's question:
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think the hand on the cover of the book represents now that we've finished the book?
I think Oskar fulfills the last stage with a deep understanding of and acceptance of the past. He doesn't necessarily "come out victorious" or "Win the heart of the girl", but instead he returns to his home with knowledge and heart. The relationship between him and his mom finally sprouts and they begin expressing their emotions fully. The struggle between the past seems to have a different unhinge and Oskar comes to a consensus.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Foer put the ending in reverse because it is showing that Oskar has accepted and come to terms with what has happened to his father. Even if he may never learn the full truth as to how he died, putting everything in reverse I think taught Oskar that everyone has specific moments in their life that they want to go back and make disappear, but we can't do that. People must move forward and adjust to the crazy surprises that life holds, and now I think Oskar understands that a bit more.
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar finds his way home by acknowledging his fathers death. Also, now that he found the lock, he has to come to terms with what happened. In the end he says, "Was it Dad? Maybe. Whoever it was, it was somebody." Which was kind of like he letting go of trying to invent how his father died.
ReplyDeleteOskar completely fulfills the final stage of the hero's journey. Throughout his journey, Oskar transforms into a different person. Eventually he makes amends with his mother as he returns home to end his journey. He doesn't really return home in the sense that we think of. Oskar finishes his journey by digging up his father's grave. Then he goes through the worst day in reverse, bringing him back home.
ReplyDeleteWe cant really get over anything, just learn how to carry it and deal with it better
ReplyDeleteOne big take away from this discussion is that you can't completely be at peace if your past is haunting you. Even if you put the bad memories to the back of your head, they will always be there, and are now a part of you, which is something you can't just let go and forget.
ReplyDeleteEverybody has some way of getting a feeling of closure. Each character in the book looks back into their past so they can move on.
ReplyDeleteThe Airport is in between something and nothing so being there expresses ______. (blank, nothing).
ReplyDeleteBeing able to write about the past and bury it will help bring peace to the future even if it's not gonna be 100% peaceful closure is better than nothing - Anthony
ReplyDelete